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	<title>Comments for Undercurrents</title>
	<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog</link>
	<description>News and Views from Hartford Independent Media Center</description>
	<pubDate>Wed, 09 Jul 2008 12:53:22 +0000</pubDate>
	<generator>http://wordpress.org/?v=2.0.5</generator>

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		<title>Comment on [Courant] Hartford Mayor Protests Hate Speech on Courant Website by Gannon</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-43351</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:51:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-43351</guid>
					<description>Here are some examples of the courant's new format, where people entered their names and locations, commenting on the front page article on the Youth FIC.

"Comeon you bigot -- how about another comment about the Courant foisting its "extreme liberal agenda" on us?

This story is evidence your claims about the Courant are a lie.

You are a lying bigot Shoreliner -- a lying, low-down, dirty bigot."

"Peter Wolfgang is the anti-Christ. He is the most hateful person I have ever met."

These are some examples of what religious people might call hate speech, attributed by name to commenters on the Courant's new and improved Topix board. I just think the issue is kind of a distraction to more egregious forms of racism, bad media, etc. that the mayor and others could concentrate on.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Here are some examples of the courant&#8217;s new format, where people entered their names and locations, commenting on the front page article on the Youth FIC.</p>
<p>&#8220;Comeon you bigot &#8212; how about another comment about the Courant foisting its &#8220;extreme liberal agenda&#8221; on us?</p>
<p>This story is evidence your claims about the Courant are a lie.</p>
<p>You are a lying bigot Shoreliner &#8212; a lying, low-down, dirty bigot.&#8221;</p>
<p>&#8220;Peter Wolfgang is the anti-Christ. He is the most hateful person I have ever met.&#8221;</p>
<p>These are some examples of what religious people might call hate speech, attributed by name to commenters on the Courant&#8217;s new and improved Topix board. I just think the issue is kind of a distraction to more egregious forms of racism, bad media, etc. that the mayor and others could concentrate on.
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		<title>Comment on Ringling Bros. Protest by caffeine effects on babies</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/05/07/ringling-bros-protest/#comment-43347</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 17:10:33 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/05/07/ringling-bros-protest/#comment-43347</guid>
					<description>&lt;strong&gt;caffeine effects on babies...&lt;/strong&gt;

Sorry, don't agree 100% with you on this!...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><strong>caffeine effects on babies&#8230;</strong></p>
<p>Sorry, don&#8217;t agree 100% with you on this!&#8230;
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		<title>Comment on Green Candidate on Channel 3 by MJ</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/20/green-candidate-on-channel-3/#comment-43340</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 07 Jul 2008 15:49:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/20/green-candidate-on-channel-3/#comment-43340</guid>
					<description>You had some very interesting comments, and I laughed when you said being elected would be your worst nightmare.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You had some very interesting comments, and I laughed when you said being elected would be your worst nightmare.
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		<title>Comment on Riverfest by Steve</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/07/06/riverfest/#comment-43235</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 14:30:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/07/06/riverfest/#comment-43235</guid>
					<description>Looks like you had VIP seats.  I was over on the bridge half way across.  Pretty good view too.  It was nice, but seemed a bit shorter than last year.  

We went to Monte Alban for dinner and then drove up Capitol Ave. to Main St. and we weren't sure if the event was canceled, there seem to be little traffic (around 7pm).  Maybe a bit fewer people this year than last, probably because of the weather.  It want nice coming back into the city from way up here near Willimantic.  I get to see what new places opened and which ones closed.  I saw that HartBeat Ensemble is doing their plays in the park again. That's cool.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Looks like you had VIP seats.  I was over on the bridge half way across.  Pretty good view too.  It was nice, but seemed a bit shorter than last year.  </p>
<p>We went to Monte Alban for dinner and then drove up Capitol Ave. to Main St. and we weren&#8217;t sure if the event was canceled, there seem to be little traffic (around 7pm).  Maybe a bit fewer people this year than last, probably because of the weather.  It want nice coming back into the city from way up here near Willimantic.  I get to see what new places opened and which ones closed.  I saw that HartBeat Ensemble is doing their plays in the park again. That&#8217;s cool.
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		<title>Comment on [Courant] Hartford Mayor Protests Hate Speech on Courant Website by m(A)tt</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-43192</link>
		<pubDate>Sun, 06 Jul 2008 04:06:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-43192</guid>
					<description>I think David's response to my comments is pretty superficial frankly. I'm not looking down upon Perez cuz he used to be a gang member. There are plenty of great individuals who came out of a life of crime; Malcolm X comes to mind. The point I'm trying to make is that he still acts like he's the tough kid on the block; he never grew up, and because it's that kind of posture that thrives in the local political environment, he never saw any need to change. 

Yes, he's not perfect, he's a politician. And when he shows up to a rally, whether it's in front of a hotel, or in front of the Courant, or in support of the Jena 6, he's got one thing in mind: his own career. That's what politicians do. Not once have I ever encountered a politician that made me re-consider that opinion. I hope my bud Luis Cotto proves me wrong, but the system tends to do an extremely effective job of either corrupting or ejecting anybody that gets elected with the intention of changing things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think David&#8217;s response to my comments is pretty superficial frankly. I&#8217;m not looking down upon Perez cuz he used to be a gang member. There are plenty of great individuals who came out of a life of crime; Malcolm X comes to mind. The point I&#8217;m trying to make is that he still acts like he&#8217;s the tough kid on the block; he never grew up, and because it&#8217;s that kind of posture that thrives in the local political environment, he never saw any need to change. </p>
<p>Yes, he&#8217;s not perfect, he&#8217;s a politician. And when he shows up to a rally, whether it&#8217;s in front of a hotel, or in front of the Courant, or in support of the Jena 6, he&#8217;s got one thing in mind: his own career. That&#8217;s what politicians do. Not once have I ever encountered a politician that made me re-consider that opinion. I hope my bud Luis Cotto proves me wrong, but the system tends to do an extremely effective job of either corrupting or ejecting anybody that gets elected with the intention of changing things.
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		<title>Comment on [Courant] Hartford Mayor Protests Hate Speech on Courant Website by Peter G</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42674</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Jul 2008 01:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42674</guid>
					<description>Gannon,

I don't think anyone is ignoring the larger point of your comment, but you seem to be saying that because racism is everywhere it's silly to actually expect anyone to do anything about it anywhere.

Your comments - the content of which appear to me to be 100% factually true - remind me of the feminist legal scholar Catherine McKinnon.  McKinnon wrote eloquently about the subjugation of women and the extent to which legal commentators ignored the everyday violence that women suffer at the hands of men.  The conclusion that she reached as a result of her analysis was that because all interactions between men and women are characterized by male dominance and male violence, therefore all sexual intercourse between men and women was rape.

The most powerful rebuke to her position came not from outraged male legal scholars (though many certainly were outraged) but from women who worked in rape crisis counseling.  Their response to McKinnon was that her conclusion minimized the reality of sexual assault by taking a broad spectrum of actions and giving them all the same name.  This ignored the real differences between everyday acts of male dominance and crimes of violence.

It is true that many of the people that write letters to the editors or op-eds in the Courant say things that reflect racist and white supremacist attitudes and assumptions.  But that it not the same as posting a comment in an anonymous online forum saying "How do you fix Hartford's problems?  Drop an atom bomb on the north end," or "Hartford's problems get worse the darker it becomes."

These statements aren't just incredibly offensive and insulting, but are the kinds of statements that will make many people reluctant to even participate in a discussion because of the level of hatred and outright bigotry that they reflect.

It was and is appropriate to challenge and oppose the editorial practices that permit this sort of verbal cross-burning to dominate online discussions at the Courant.  The fact that those that spoke out did not also condemn every reporter and editorial writer at the Courant in the same breath does not invalidate their criticisms.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gannon,</p>
<p>I don&#8217;t think anyone is ignoring the larger point of your comment, but you seem to be saying that because racism is everywhere it&#8217;s silly to actually expect anyone to do anything about it anywhere.</p>
<p>Your comments - the content of which appear to me to be 100% factually true - remind me of the feminist legal scholar Catherine McKinnon.  McKinnon wrote eloquently about the subjugation of women and the extent to which legal commentators ignored the everyday violence that women suffer at the hands of men.  The conclusion that she reached as a result of her analysis was that because all interactions between men and women are characterized by male dominance and male violence, therefore all sexual intercourse between men and women was rape.</p>
<p>The most powerful rebuke to her position came not from outraged male legal scholars (though many certainly were outraged) but from women who worked in rape crisis counseling.  Their response to McKinnon was that her conclusion minimized the reality of sexual assault by taking a broad spectrum of actions and giving them all the same name.  This ignored the real differences between everyday acts of male dominance and crimes of violence.</p>
<p>It is true that many of the people that write letters to the editors or op-eds in the Courant say things that reflect racist and white supremacist attitudes and assumptions.  But that it not the same as posting a comment in an anonymous online forum saying &#8220;How do you fix Hartford&#8217;s problems?  Drop an atom bomb on the north end,&#8221; or &#8220;Hartford&#8217;s problems get worse the darker it becomes.&#8221;</p>
<p>These statements aren&#8217;t just incredibly offensive and insulting, but are the kinds of statements that will make many people reluctant to even participate in a discussion because of the level of hatred and outright bigotry that they reflect.</p>
<p>It was and is appropriate to challenge and oppose the editorial practices that permit this sort of verbal cross-burning to dominate online discussions at the Courant.  The fact that those that spoke out did not also condemn every reporter and editorial writer at the Courant in the same breath does not invalidate their criticisms.
</p>
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		<title>Comment on [Courant] Hartford Mayor Protests Hate Speech on Courant Website by Gannon</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42652</link>
		<pubDate>Wed, 02 Jul 2008 22:34:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42652</guid>
					<description>Urban Compass and Peter, you're still ignoring the larger point of my comment. What about the letters to the editor section in the Courant? For as long as I can remember, that's been full of people's racist comments that include names and addresses. There are many online forums where people have to register, and don't realize how homophobic/racist/sexist etc their comments are. or don't care. Plenty of DJs and talk show hosts talking about the "pregnant man," Thomas Beattie of Oregon, with appalling transphobia. Hiding behind a code name is not the issue. It's the prejudices that are the issue. And I guess the Courant got the point, since they've changed the way people post comments. But I still think that to push racism to the shadows doesn't make it not exist. It just means it exists in the shadows.

It's not just the blog commenters who are the problem at the Courant. It's the editorial staff, the people who endorse Joe Lieberman and George Bush, the stories they green light that exploit Hartford's people for a profit, that provide a context for racist comments. The blog is simply a new medium. It's the same prejudice it's always been.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Urban Compass and Peter, you&#8217;re still ignoring the larger point of my comment. What about the letters to the editor section in the Courant? For as long as I can remember, that&#8217;s been full of people&#8217;s racist comments that include names and addresses. There are many online forums where people have to register, and don&#8217;t realize how homophobic/racist/sexist etc their comments are. or don&#8217;t care. Plenty of DJs and talk show hosts talking about the &#8220;pregnant man,&#8221; Thomas Beattie of Oregon, with appalling transphobia. Hiding behind a code name is not the issue. It&#8217;s the prejudices that are the issue. And I guess the Courant got the point, since they&#8217;ve changed the way people post comments. But I still think that to push racism to the shadows doesn&#8217;t make it not exist. It just means it exists in the shadows.</p>
<p>It&#8217;s not just the blog commenters who are the problem at the Courant. It&#8217;s the editorial staff, the people who endorse Joe Lieberman and George Bush, the stories they green light that exploit Hartford&#8217;s people for a profit, that provide a context for racist comments. The blog is simply a new medium. It&#8217;s the same prejudice it&#8217;s always been.
</p>
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		<title>Comment on [Courant] Hartford Mayor Protests Hate Speech on Courant Website by Urban Compass &#124; Blog Archive &#124; Courant Responds to Hate Speech Concerns</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42418</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:51:11 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42418</guid>
					<description>[...] Commenting after a related post on this subject at the Hartford-based blog Undercurrents, reader Gannon questioned the value of having readers register: &#8220;Has anyone ever read the Danbury News-Times online? They require registration for blog comments. And their comments are consistently homophobic, racist, anti-immigrant, you name it. Registering provides an extra level of accountability and dialogue, perhaps, but it doesn’t make people more politically correct.&#8221; Peter G correctly replied, &#8220;If you go to their comments pages all you are required to do is enter your &#8216;name&#8217;—which can be anything under the sun.&#8221; [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[&#8230;] Commenting after a related post on this subject at the Hartford-based blog Undercurrents, reader Gannon questioned the value of having readers register: &#8220;Has anyone ever read the Danbury News-Times online? They require registration for blog comments. And their comments are consistently homophobic, racist, anti-immigrant, you name it. Registering provides an extra level of accountability and dialogue, perhaps, but it doesn’t make people more politically correct.&#8221; Peter G correctly replied, &#8220;If you go to their comments pages all you are required to do is enter your &#8216;name&#8217;—which can be anything under the sun.&#8221; [&#8230;]
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		<title>Comment on [Courant] Hartford Mayor Protests Hate Speech on Courant Website by Peter G</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42417</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 19:29:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42417</guid>
					<description>I think you're mistaken about the News Times Online.  If you go to their comments pages all you are required to do is enter your "name" - which can be anything under the sun.  One observer pointed out that in some instances people were deliberately creating cleverly concealed racist names in order to avoid being deleted by the monitors.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think you&#8217;re mistaken about the News Times Online.  If you go to their comments pages all you are required to do is enter your &#8220;name&#8221; - which can be anything under the sun.  One observer pointed out that in some instances people were deliberately creating cleverly concealed racist names in order to avoid being deleted by the monitors.
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		<title>Comment on [Courant] Hartford Mayor Protests Hate Speech on Courant Website by Gannon</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42414</link>
		<pubDate>Mon, 30 Jun 2008 18:29:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42414</guid>
					<description>Has anyone ever read the Danbury News-Times online? They require registration for blog comments. And their comments are consistently homophobic, racist, anti-immigrant, you name it. Registering provides an extra level of accountability and dialogue, perhaps, but it doesn't make people more politically correct. Pro- or anti- Perez, I still don't see the point of the Courant protest. The Courant is a fairly racist newspaper (as someone who grew up in Hartford can clearly see). Its readers consistently express racist views - whether in blog comments anonymously, in letters to the editor with their names and towns attached, or even from the editorial page itself. I think there are bigger issues for the mayor, and activists such as ourselves, to address. I appreciate this blog and others as a forum to do so.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Has anyone ever read the Danbury News-Times online? They require registration for blog comments. And their comments are consistently homophobic, racist, anti-immigrant, you name it. Registering provides an extra level of accountability and dialogue, perhaps, but it doesn&#8217;t make people more politically correct. Pro- or anti- Perez, I still don&#8217;t see the point of the Courant protest. The Courant is a fairly racist newspaper (as someone who grew up in Hartford can clearly see). Its readers consistently express racist views - whether in blog comments anonymously, in letters to the editor with their names and towns attached, or even from the editorial page itself. I think there are bigger issues for the mayor, and activists such as ourselves, to address. I appreciate this blog and others as a forum to do so.
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		<title>Comment on [Courant] Hartford Mayor Protests Hate Speech on Courant Website by David Schultz</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42214</link>
		<pubDate>Sat, 28 Jun 2008 14:28:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42214</guid>
					<description>I'm not sure if I buy what Matt is saying here on post # 9.  Perez having been a former gang leader doesn't bother me as much as does you.  The fact that he had to struggle moving a million times through his childhood, sometimes having to carry the boxes from one apartment--and walking them to the new home one, was not one of my experiences growing up. But something that could help him tune into many people of Hartford better than me.  Say what you will, he was elected--and within a fairly democratic system (clearly not perfect)--but local politics aren't quite the same as a Federal ones.  People can get involved and actually get elected without being rich millionaires. 

He's a politician.  And politics is about power.  So community organizers will always have to organize to get what we want from them.

But I was surprised to see him there at the Hotel and Restaurant workers picket line and then speaking out--jeopardizing his relationship with Travelors. I didn't see any other politicians there. I haven't seen that in a lot of the Hartford mayors in the past. 

Clearly he's not perfect, but his life history and the work he's done brought him out to support minimum wage workers against a multinational corporation.  And that is worthy of praise in my mind.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m not sure if I buy what Matt is saying here on post # 9.  Perez having been a former gang leader doesn&#8217;t bother me as much as does you.  The fact that he had to struggle moving a million times through his childhood, sometimes having to carry the boxes from one apartment&#8211;and walking them to the new home one, was not one of my experiences growing up. But something that could help him tune into many people of Hartford better than me.  Say what you will, he was elected&#8211;and within a fairly democratic system (clearly not perfect)&#8211;but local politics aren&#8217;t quite the same as a Federal ones.  People can get involved and actually get elected without being rich millionaires. </p>
<p>He&#8217;s a politician.  And politics is about power.  So community organizers will always have to organize to get what we want from them.</p>
<p>But I was surprised to see him there at the Hotel and Restaurant workers picket line and then speaking out&#8211;jeopardizing his relationship with Travelors. I didn&#8217;t see any other politicians there. I haven&#8217;t seen that in a lot of the Hartford mayors in the past. </p>
<p>Clearly he&#8217;s not perfect, but his life history and the work he&#8217;s done brought him out to support minimum wage workers against a multinational corporation.  And that is worthy of praise in my mind.
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		<title>Comment on [Courant] Hartford Mayor Protests Hate Speech on Courant Website by Peter G</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42164</link>
		<pubDate>Fri, 27 Jun 2008 12:52:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42164</guid>
					<description>The Courant (or actually the company that manages the forum site, Topix) has always - in theory at least - edited certain kinds of comments.  And some forms of racist and sexist language does get removed...as do some of the other more vicious and personal kinds of attacks.  But what they don't do is require that an individual actually register with their website.  Boards like the Topix forums that do require registration generally do not even require that you use your real name as your user name, but they do verify email addresses and collect IPS information and that process tends to create a higher level of accountability.

The defense of unregistered forums like the one currently used has typically been that it encourages speech.  I think that's turned upside down.  A public forum that addresses controversial issues needs to not only be "free" but also safe . . . a place where voices that are often not heard can express opinions without being subjected to vicious attacks, or where racist and sexist codewords and stereotypes are not used to shove people out the door.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Courant (or actually the company that manages the forum site, Topix) has always - in theory at least - edited certain kinds of comments.  And some forms of racist and sexist language does get removed&#8230;as do some of the other more vicious and personal kinds of attacks.  But what they don&#8217;t do is require that an individual actually register with their website.  Boards like the Topix forums that do require registration generally do not even require that you use your real name as your user name, but they do verify email addresses and collect IPS information and that process tends to create a higher level of accountability.</p>
<p>The defense of unregistered forums like the one currently used has typically been that it encourages speech.  I think that&#8217;s turned upside down.  A public forum that addresses controversial issues needs to not only be &#8220;free&#8221; but also safe . . . a place where voices that are often not heard can express opinions without being subjected to vicious attacks, or where racist and sexist codewords and stereotypes are not used to shove people out the door.
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		<title>Comment on [Courant] Hartford Mayor Protests Hate Speech on Courant Website by Goolia</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42102</link>
		<pubDate>Thu, 26 Jun 2008 20:26:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid>http://hartfordimc.org/blog/2008/06/21/courant-hartford-mayor-protests-hate-speech-on-courant-website/#comment-42102</guid>
					<description>Something interesting: i was just reading a story of the crash this morning in Southington on NBC30.com.  I decided to read the comments - as i always do and noticed that one of them was deleted that said, "good, i hope they die". That wasn't even the most offensive part - it was the subscribers name which i won't repeat here, for sake of my entry being deleted.  I noticed this because someone responded to the comment telling the person that they were insensitive.  This is the first time i have seen any of the online news sections delete a comment.  unfortunatly, they didn't delete the response, so what the person said is still up there.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Something interesting: i was just reading a story of the crash this morning in Southington on NBC30.com.  I decided to read the comments - as i always do and noticed that one of them was deleted that said, &#8220;good, i hope they die&#8221;. That wasn&#8217;t even the most offensive part - it was the subscribers name which i won&#8217;t repeat here, for sake of my entry being deleted.  I noticed this because someone responded to the comment telling the person that they were insensitive.  This is the first time i have seen any of the online news sections delete a comment.  unfortunatly, they didn&#8217;t delete the response, so what the person said is still up there.
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