Thu 17 Jan 2008
I wrote some nasty things about writers earlier this week, and, as I was considering whether I owe anybody an apology, it occured to me that there is precious little written in disparagement of writers. There is ample criticism of individual works and individual writers, usually for bad writing, but not much written against the profession of writing or the character of writers, including good ones.
And so I wrote that the picketers of the TV writers’ union weren’t rugged enough to call themselves strikers, and I suggested that they would need a rougher edge if they expected to win. Writers, I implied, are just not the sort to arouse much sympathy in the public or feelings of solidarity among laborers. My analysis may have been facile, but it’s still worth looking at.
As a writer and a reader, I’m not at all hesitant to say that the best writers are incessant whiners. Writing about what’s right with the world is writing without conflict, without drama, without purpose, without life. Writing is a sublimated, adult form of tantrum. Happy, contented folks take little pleasure in writing and hardly ever engage in it. A bargaining unit of workers whose job requires such misanthropy is, from a unionist’s point of view, at a disadvantage.
You can’t stereotype writers, but the writings of writers tend to be introspective at their best, and self-absorption is a big part of introspection. Self-absorbed people don’t do well on picket lines. They shiver. I said here that the people I saw on this picket line looked delicate, and the writers I’ve worked with have been delicate. Try editing one, and see what happens.
I said writing was easy compared to actual work. People in cushy jobs don’t make good labor grievants. I don’t know anybody who washes dishes or mixes mortar as a hobby, but I write for my own edification, and you probably do too. I’m compelled to write. I wish I could be getting modestly paid for it again, but, alas, I’m delicate, prone to tantrums, and excessively self-absorbed, and so no one will have me.
A few people took my description of the writer-picketers as “delicate” and their signs as “dainty” to carry some effeminate connotation, but I was using the words in an entirely literal sense, and I was pleased with the image I thought I would evoke. The idea of sexual identity was the furthest thing from my mind, and I had to eat a few epithets. In retrospect, as a writer and an avid neurotic, I’m gratified to have been misunderstood in a way that provoked discussion.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:04 pm
How sad that the only thing you learned from the discussion is that you were right, everyone else was wrong, and you are woefully misunderstood.
January 17th, 2008 at 2:43 pm
Maybe I’m being overly sensitive to this, but has anyone else noticed that the vast majority of writers and commenters on this blog have been male, at least lately? There have been all kinds of studies that show how women have been socialized to communicate differently from men, and I have to wonder if the absence of female bloggers/commenters here is in part to the at times hostile environment here.
January 17th, 2008 at 3:21 pm
That’s certainly possible. An awful lot of “public” places on the internet are not particularly friendly or welcoming.
Are you saying that you think the environment is hostile toward women, or that it is hostile in general? Or both?
In what ways do you think it should be / could be made a space in which women would feel more comfortable blogging?
January 17th, 2008 at 4:10 pm
First, writing is a bourgeois exercise in self-indulgence.
Second, I approach blogging like a barroom debate, except without the benefit of alcohol and without the satisfaction of being able to tell someone they’re full of shit to their face. And therein may lay the problem of which you speak, Kerri. Unlike pub discussions, though, the stupid things that are said don’t waft away into the ether, they are stored away in digital code to come back to bedevil the blogger.
The blog forum also has the additional benefit of instant googling to settle barroom bets.
January 17th, 2008 at 4:55 pm
Hostile or combative? Boys like combat. Men, too, especially when the ammo is just words.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:01 pm
I’d love for Ernest Hemingway to hear you call him “delicate” or deny him a paycheck.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:10 pm
Wow this is really interesting, but I’m not sure writing has to be a “bourgeouis exercise in self-indulgence.” Writing can also be a life saving device, and a great way to communicate. I keep coming back to HIMC, because it’s pretty unique. The root issues that we talk about are left alone by mainstream press.
A new friend of mine whose transgender, has me extremely psyched about the idea of working on race, class and gender together. Right now I’m part of an organization whose highest leadership is primarily heterosexual Black folks from Hartford. They want to add transgender public safety issues on our factsheets. Meanwhile, whites in the group, are asking “what needs to be done to keep Black people safe?” It’s an awesome sense of solidarity.
Is it my imagination, or are people really beginning to unite across the lines?
In this blog we challenge each other on emotional issues regarding oppression, but I agree with Kerri and think we can be less hostile. And I’m learning slowly what Jim said as being true. What we say in person needs to be said differenly in a blog.
It’s hard work, being inclusive. It goes against the grain, for guys to think about how women might communicate differently. But obviously it’s worth it.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:41 pm
I seems to me that some writers can write themselves out of anything and come out smelling like a rose. Thats nice.
I find the words by Jim “writing is a bourgeois exercise in self indulgence” to be very interesting. Gee I just finished Vol. 1-4 “Selected Works of Mao Tse-Tung”, Emma Goldman’s “Anarchism and Other Essays”, Malcolm X’s “Writings and Quotes”, Audre Lorde’s “Sister Outsider”, and “The Anarchist Cook book”. OMG my book shelf is full of the bourgeois. Better hide them before any of revolutionaries I know come over. I must be missing the revolutionary boat in Hartford.
Hey Peter got room for me on your boat? I promise I won’t bring any of my bourgeois books.
January 17th, 2008 at 5:57 pm
Kerri - in response to your comment about women. I ALWAYS enjoy reading this blog. I was turned onto it by a coworker and although my political and social beliefs are probably much different than many people on here, i still like to check in daily to hear other’s opinions. That being said, i was a little disappointed how angry the last discussion got. Yes, people have different opinions…but i thought this was a forum that you could have a “discussion” and not be called a whole list of words the guys on this blog have been calling each other. I remember someone a while back saying that people were becoming too sensative on this forum. Well, maybe so…but then don’t get too upset when some people stop posting comments. Not to mention, seeing how Peter G handles people who don’t use spellcheck, or write at a his approved intellectual ability…i would be terrified to actually voice any of my beliefs on this site (other than the very few comments i make monthly).
so sorry if this sounded unintelligable, or there were spelling or gramatical errors. Nevertheless, keep up all the (good) work! You’ve all certainly made a positive improvement in my life (politically/socially) over the past year.
January 17th, 2008 at 7:38 pm
Richard,
Score one for you. I owe you a drink.
Lord, have you heard the one about Wallace Stevens decking Hemingway during an argument about something or other? I forget the details, but if you ask a member of the Friends, Enemies and Bastard Children of Wallace Stevens, they could fill you in.
How about this one: actions speak louder than words, written or spoken or blogged.
January 17th, 2008 at 9:55 pm
Who knows, maybe you will delete my comment, but I just have to say, as an outsider of this community and a Liberal who has spent his entire career working in politics for progressive causes, but is an occassional reader of this site, this thread, plus the one that spurred it, have to be some of the most laugh out loud hilarious unintentional Colbert-esque writing I have ever read (next to the completely self centered and transparent delusions of granduer run for Congress post that also appeared recently).
I don’t know if many of you understand how you all on an almost daily basis, DAILY, stereotype all sorts of people constantly, who may be slightly to the right of Chavez such as the police, politicians, members of the military, etc…… Honestly, why are these targets okay for stereotyping, but others are not? There is an insanely rigid world view here that is hilarious. It’s funny b/c no one here is any sort of position to actually affect other people’s lives,…I mean, delusionally people here think they will eventually smash the state or free Mumia or whatever, but really??????.
This entire conversation is absurd and avoids much larger points, and all just to fit this stupid black clad rigid I’m more punk than you bullshit world view that gets people no where other than drunk and depressed. I’m sorry, but someone had to point out the absolute hilariousness of watching this debate that has taken place here.
January 18th, 2008 at 1:43 am
Richard, bring your books with you!
The act of writing is no more bourgeois than the act of taking a crap. These are human activities. It may, of course, be true that in either case what you produce speaks volumes about what you consume.
January 18th, 2008 at 2:35 am
Peter,
Some writing is harder to digest ( or is it stomach), especially when the rhetoric level reaches a certain point. In your case, a high colonic might help.
January 18th, 2008 at 3:21 am
Mike,
Instead of Colbertesque, I think what we have achieved here is closer to Jerry Springer for the politically correct crowd.
January 18th, 2008 at 9:32 am
To answer someone’s question– I meant hostile in general, or hostile toward specific people. I don’t think there’s overt hostility toward women, but what I was saying is that for women who might have been socialized to communicate differently, these little pissing contests can be alienating or annoying. Many of us deal with harassment regularly, and might not feel like willingly joining a conversation that resembles a Springer debate more than a civilized discussion. I’m not saying that all women feel this way, just that many of us are not used to feeling respected or really listened to by our colleagues or acquaintances, and so having yet another place (even if on the surface the politics seem right) be nothing more than screaming match power trips can be isolating. And yes, that’s something for ALL of the men who write here to think about–by expressing yourself in a certain way, are you drowning out the voices of the traditionally oppressed?
Writing might be a “bourgeois exercise in self-indulgence,” but so is living.
January 18th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Thank you all for helping clarify my thoughts.
How about this: “writing is an exercise in bourgeois self-indulgence for some people.” I’m with Mao and Mahatma (and I’m guessing Peter and Richard would agree) that it would do some writers a lot of good to be compelled to empty bed pans, dig coal, clean the latrine, grow, pick, cook and serve food to others, fight as an imperial grunt (or better yet, to be on the receiving end of the U.S.’s latest shock and awe horror show), whatever it takes to get them to see, hear and feel life as the underdog (or as the old saw puts it,
“walk a mile in their shoes”). Mao had his reeducation camps, Mahatma had his community where even the top dog himself fed the goats and cleaned the latrine. To circle back to Steve T’s original post (look what you have wrought), and as someone already wrote, if this strike leads more people to look favorably on the union movement, then it’s a good thing.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:25 am
One thing that bothers me is I don’t know how to use spell check in the comment section. Please help. Not that I feel put down by anyone it just troubles me not being the best speller in the world. So Kerri or Kevin will you instruct.
I will try to behave myself and not get into a pissing contest,and not be rude. I don’t think that this thread is like the Springer show most of the time (never watched it but only hear what others have told me)but a REAL place of discussion and learning. At least for me it is. Even the so called pissing contests have their value.
I will be the first to say that Peter G has enlightened me in many ways and always welcome his voice no matter what frame he is in or comes from. I have never felt put down when he has taken me to task. He is a powerful voice in this community and we can thank our lucky stars that he dwells with us.
Thank you Kerri for pointing out the way some of us have been expressing ourselves. Coming from a Queer place I should be one of the first to understand this. But I don’t, so I gladly welcome an education from a oppressed community. How about a posting. I sure could use it.
Right now I am biting my tongue over a comment from last evening, stepping back and trying to write something that isn’t so angry and offensive. But see I can’t as I am full of distain for the views expressed. Now this is a good exercise for me even if I feel like a suffering pacifist, rather than a pink/red/black clad Anarchist/Communist who knows that the state will more than likely smash itself(its doing a good job of it) but that it is my duty to help it fall any way I can. There is nothing delusional about that.
Thanks Jim for #16 on Mao and the Mahatma. Until we have also cleaned the toliets of others, picked the grapes and sugar cane, how can we….. I think this is the case of many progressives and liberals, we haven’t. This old fool named Richard has a lot to learn and re-learn. Thank you all for providing some of the tools.
January 18th, 2008 at 11:44 am
mike-
I agree that this thread and the one that spawned it are a total waste of time…(personally I could care less if these writers never return to work cranking out crap just to sell more crap to people who have enough crap).
On another note, Wow do you make an awful lot of assumptions in your post. I can assure you that most of the contributers on this site are not black clad punk rockers. And as far as stereo-typing politicians, the police, and the military, they are agents of the state and oppressive institutions, and I have no sympathy for their “plight”. I can’t see how you would honestly compare this sites critiquing of these groups with the daily abuse that women,non-whites,lgbtq, and disabled folks deal with all the time.
Obviously you make a living at maintaining the status quo so I am not surprised that far-left radicals make you a bit squeemish.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:35 pm
Dave, yeah, we’re not all black clad punk rockers.
I’m a kept man who sits around in his skivvies all day fighting the empire with sloth and indolence. I have a black belt in both.
January 18th, 2008 at 12:41 pm
Goolia makes the criticism that I slammed someone here for not using spellcheck or writing in grammatical sentences. She is quite correct in her criticism. That’s exactly the sort of thing that I usually try NOT to do, and I let my anger at the particular individual get in the way of my principles.
I apologize. Criticizing someone for not communicating in “standard English” (for lack of a better term) is elitist. And one of the results of that kind of elitism is to chill others from expressing their opinions and control the discourse. Blogs like Undercurrents were created precisely to challenge the ways that hierarchy controls discussion. The point of communication is not to follow rules but to engage other people. Thank you for reminding me.