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	<title>Comments on: A Jew, a Christian and an Atheist Walk Into the Bushnell</title>
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	<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/</link>
	<description>Hartford Independent Media Collective - your real alternative for news and views in central CT</description>
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		<title>By: Peter G</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/comment-page-1/#comment-438</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 23:24:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hartfordimc.org/?p=2172#comment-438</guid>
		<description>To be fair, I think people pay not to &quot;listen to someone else&#039;s opinion&quot; but to be entertained . . . these speaking circuits usually involve people of some celebrity, and sometimes pit two or more controversial figures against each other.  It&#039;s really theater of a kind.  Like I said, I&#039;ve never gone to the CT Forum and I find most of the pairings obnoxious (what do these two or three wealthy white male pundits think about some burning issue of the day), but I&#039;d pay to go to almost any of them before I&#039;d pay to see Phantom of the Opera!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>To be fair, I think people pay not to &#8220;listen to someone else&#8217;s opinion&#8221; but to be entertained . . . these speaking circuits usually involve people of some celebrity, and sometimes pit two or more controversial figures against each other.  It&#8217;s really theater of a kind.  Like I said, I&#8217;ve never gone to the CT Forum and I find most of the pairings obnoxious (what do these two or three wealthy white male pundits think about some burning issue of the day), but I&#8217;d pay to go to almost any of them before I&#8217;d pay to see Phantom of the Opera!</p>
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		<title>By: dave rozza</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/comment-page-1/#comment-436</link>
		<dc:creator>dave rozza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 21:11:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hartfordimc.org/?p=2172#comment-436</guid>
		<description>I suppose it costs a lot of money to bring in  so-called experts. Maybe what they should do instead, is bring in folks from the community to discuss these hot button issues. I&#039;m not judging anyone here, I just don&#039;t understand why you would pay to listen to someone else&#039;s opinion...at the very least they should stop calling it a forum. 

p.s. It would be cool to have a listing on this site of all the free arts and culture related events in Hartford.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I suppose it costs a lot of money to bring in  so-called experts. Maybe what they should do instead, is bring in folks from the community to discuss these hot button issues. I&#8217;m not judging anyone here, I just don&#8217;t understand why you would pay to listen to someone else&#8217;s opinion&#8230;at the very least they should stop calling it a forum. </p>
<p>p.s. It would be cool to have a listing on this site of all the free arts and culture related events in Hartford.</p>
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		<title>By: meghanquinn</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/comment-page-1/#comment-435</link>
		<dc:creator>meghanquinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 06 Feb 2009 17:16:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hartfordimc.org/?p=2172#comment-435</guid>
		<description>I admit, when I first got to the Forum and I saw that the crowd was way more affluent and white than your average group of Hartford city dwellers - judging by appearances and the fact that tickets range from $25-$65 - I was a bit put off. 

But I started realistically thinking about it: the CT Forum is a nonprofit and I bet it costs a LOT to get these big name people there. I know nothing about this, but don&#039;t you think it probably costs thousands/tens of thousands of dollars to get these famous people to come? 

Of course the Forum has some corporate support, but they also run the CT Youth Forum, and it says on their site that they give away 1,000 tickets every year to high schoolers and community members.

So I don&#039;t really think that realistically they could make this completely free to everyone, although I wish it was!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I admit, when I first got to the Forum and I saw that the crowd was way more affluent and white than your average group of Hartford city dwellers &#8211; judging by appearances and the fact that tickets range from $25-$65 &#8211; I was a bit put off. </p>
<p>But I started realistically thinking about it: the CT Forum is a nonprofit and I bet it costs a LOT to get these big name people there. I know nothing about this, but don&#8217;t you think it probably costs thousands/tens of thousands of dollars to get these famous people to come? </p>
<p>Of course the Forum has some corporate support, but they also run the CT Youth Forum, and it says on their site that they give away 1,000 tickets every year to high schoolers and community members.</p>
<p>So I don&#8217;t really think that realistically they could make this completely free to everyone, although I wish it was!</p>
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		<title>By: kevin</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/comment-page-1/#comment-432</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 22:18:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hartfordimc.org/?p=2172#comment-432</guid>
		<description>The Oxford English Dictionary says the earliest known definition of &quot;forum&quot; is: &quot;The public place or market-place of a city. In ancient Rome the place of assembly for judicial and other public business.&quot;

By this definition, it should be free to the public.  Sorry, I&#039;m a word nerd.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Oxford English Dictionary says the earliest known definition of &#8220;forum&#8221; is: &#8220;The public place or market-place of a city. In ancient Rome the place of assembly for judicial and other public business.&#8221;</p>
<p>By this definition, it should be free to the public.  Sorry, I&#8217;m a word nerd.</p>
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		<title>By: dave rozza</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/comment-page-1/#comment-430</link>
		<dc:creator>dave rozza</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 20:24:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hartfordimc.org/?p=2172#comment-430</guid>
		<description>too bad those &quot;forums&quot; aren&#039;t free to the public</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>too bad those &#8220;forums&#8221; aren&#8217;t free to the public</p>
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		<title>By: Bratney</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/comment-page-1/#comment-429</link>
		<dc:creator>Bratney</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 19:46:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hartfordimc.org/?p=2172#comment-429</guid>
		<description>Thanks for the full write up of what was an excellent program. It was the best, most varied, and truly open discussion about God I have ever heard.
Why does Peter &quot;avoid the Ct Forum like a plague&quot;? They are really cool programs.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks for the full write up of what was an excellent program. It was the best, most varied, and truly open discussion about God I have ever heard.<br />
Why does Peter &#8220;avoid the Ct Forum like a plague&#8221;? They are really cool programs.</p>
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		<title>By: meghanquinn</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/comment-page-1/#comment-427</link>
		<dc:creator>meghanquinn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:07:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hartfordimc.org/?p=2172#comment-427</guid>
		<description>Kevin, 

Your guess is correct about the Catholic thing. And yes I wish there were more faiths represented. The Jewish and Christian faiths have so much in common it would have been cool to hear a different perspective. In the program book they had a really interesting chart listing info about a few dozen of the most popular religions around the world, some of which I&#039;d never even heard of.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kevin, </p>
<p>Your guess is correct about the Catholic thing. And yes I wish there were more faiths represented. The Jewish and Christian faiths have so much in common it would have been cool to hear a different perspective. In the program book they had a really interesting chart listing info about a few dozen of the most popular religions around the world, some of which I&#8217;d never even heard of.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter G</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/comment-page-1/#comment-423</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hartfordimc.org/?p=2172#comment-423</guid>
		<description>P.S.  Generally I avoid these Connecticut Forums like the plague...but can&#039;t wait to see Anthony Bourdain (author of the scathing Kitchen Confidential), Alice Waters (founder of Chez Panisse), and Duff Goldman (of Ace of Cakes fame).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>P.S.  Generally I avoid these Connecticut Forums like the plague&#8230;but can&#8217;t wait to see Anthony Bourdain (author of the scathing Kitchen Confidential), Alice Waters (founder of Chez Panisse), and Duff Goldman (of Ace of Cakes fame).</p>
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		<title>By: kevin</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/comment-page-1/#comment-422</link>
		<dc:creator>kevin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 20:37:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hartfordimc.org/?p=2172#comment-422</guid>
		<description>&quot;Often in other settings (like in church) I’ve found the emphasis more on what God needs you to do, not the other way around. &quot;

Sounds like Catholicism.  I wish that a Catholic was represented among the panelists, and how about a Muslim?  

Great write-up.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Often in other settings (like in church) I’ve found the emphasis more on what God needs you to do, not the other way around. &#8221;</p>
<p>Sounds like Catholicism.  I wish that a Catholic was represented among the panelists, and how about a Muslim?  </p>
<p>Great write-up.</p>
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		<title>By: Peter G</title>
		<link>http://hartfordimc.org/2009/02/04/a-jew-a-christian-and-an-atheist-walk-into-the-bushnell/comment-page-1/#comment-421</link>
		<dc:creator>Peter G</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 04 Feb 2009 15:22:51 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hartfordimc.org/?p=2172#comment-421</guid>
		<description>Great report!

There is a part of me that sometimes wants to cheer for Hitchens&#039; brand of atheism because he *sometimes* emphasizes the incredible scientific and social progress that can be directly attributed to the rejection of religious ideas and superstition.  It&#039;s similar to the way that I feel about early Soviet poster campaigns that denounced the Orthodox Church as a promoter of czarism, reaction and bigotry.  Sometimes challenges to institutional religion are absolutely necessary.

But you have to take a step back and look at Hitchens&#039; whole agenda.  Hitchens has for the last decade been part of what commentator Edward Herman calls &quot;the Cruise Missile Left&quot;:

http://musictravel.free.fr/political/political36.htm

Essentially, these are liberals who actually support U.S. imperialism and war.  In the lead up to the Iraq War, Hitchens played the cynical role of posturing as an opponent of the war while attempting to drive wedges in the movement . . . red-baiting socialists and communists and using his critique of religion to whip up anti-Muslim sentiment.  In the last analysis, he wasn&#039;t against the war on Iraq at all, he simply wanted to turn it into a modern day secular Crusade in which liberal Americans would lead the fight to destroy evil fatwah-issuing Muslim clerics.

And even in his current incarnation in which he focuses on the negative impact of religion and superstition in society, it often seems to me that there is a strong flavor of the White Man&#039;s Burden in this thinking...in which &quot;western&quot; rationalist ideas and values represent the pinnacle of &quot;civilized&quot; society that must be shoved down the throats of the superstitious heathens.

As for the other panelists...well, I think they are absolutely correct that in the current atmosphere of social dislocation and disorientation and individualism, religion is a powerful source of solace for many people who are suffering (that&#039;s the real meaning, of course, of Marx&#039;s adage that religion is the opiate of the masses...it helps individuals to kill the pain of living under capitalism).  That doesn&#039;t mean that the religious formulations that people cling to can or should be accepted as factual, much less as appropriate determinants of social policy.

A friend of mine grew up in a dirt-poor family in a small working class town in New York state.  The kind of family, as he often said, where as a kid he was often sent to school with lunches consisting of a mustard sandwich because bread and mustard was all they could ever afford.  His mother was an ardent fundamentalist christian.  He always felt that this was in no small measure because she was married to an alcoholic man who physically and emotionally terrorized her and she felt she had no means of escape because she was a woman with no job skills, no source of income except for her husband, and no way out.

Although my friend grew up to be fiercely atheistic in his beliefs, he always remembered that his mother&#039;s religion was the only comfort that she had in her life. His take on it was that until we had fashioned a better world for people like his mother to live in, we had no right to ridicule her for the faith that she clung to in order to survive it.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great report!</p>
<p>There is a part of me that sometimes wants to cheer for Hitchens&#8217; brand of atheism because he *sometimes* emphasizes the incredible scientific and social progress that can be directly attributed to the rejection of religious ideas and superstition.  It&#8217;s similar to the way that I feel about early Soviet poster campaigns that denounced the Orthodox Church as a promoter of czarism, reaction and bigotry.  Sometimes challenges to institutional religion are absolutely necessary.</p>
<p>But you have to take a step back and look at Hitchens&#8217; whole agenda.  Hitchens has for the last decade been part of what commentator Edward Herman calls &#8220;the Cruise Missile Left&#8221;:</p>
<p><a href="http://musictravel.free.fr/political/political36.htm" rel="nofollow">http://musictravel.free.fr/political/political36.htm</a></p>
<p>Essentially, these are liberals who actually support U.S. imperialism and war.  In the lead up to the Iraq War, Hitchens played the cynical role of posturing as an opponent of the war while attempting to drive wedges in the movement . . . red-baiting socialists and communists and using his critique of religion to whip up anti-Muslim sentiment.  In the last analysis, he wasn&#8217;t against the war on Iraq at all, he simply wanted to turn it into a modern day secular Crusade in which liberal Americans would lead the fight to destroy evil fatwah-issuing Muslim clerics.</p>
<p>And even in his current incarnation in which he focuses on the negative impact of religion and superstition in society, it often seems to me that there is a strong flavor of the White Man&#8217;s Burden in this thinking&#8230;in which &#8220;western&#8221; rationalist ideas and values represent the pinnacle of &#8220;civilized&#8221; society that must be shoved down the throats of the superstitious heathens.</p>
<p>As for the other panelists&#8230;well, I think they are absolutely correct that in the current atmosphere of social dislocation and disorientation and individualism, religion is a powerful source of solace for many people who are suffering (that&#8217;s the real meaning, of course, of Marx&#8217;s adage that religion is the opiate of the masses&#8230;it helps individuals to kill the pain of living under capitalism).  That doesn&#8217;t mean that the religious formulations that people cling to can or should be accepted as factual, much less as appropriate determinants of social policy.</p>
<p>A friend of mine grew up in a dirt-poor family in a small working class town in New York state.  The kind of family, as he often said, where as a kid he was often sent to school with lunches consisting of a mustard sandwich because bread and mustard was all they could ever afford.  His mother was an ardent fundamentalist christian.  He always felt that this was in no small measure because she was married to an alcoholic man who physically and emotionally terrorized her and she felt she had no means of escape because she was a woman with no job skills, no source of income except for her husband, and no way out.</p>
<p>Although my friend grew up to be fiercely atheistic in his beliefs, he always remembered that his mother&#8217;s religion was the only comfort that she had in her life. His take on it was that until we had fashioned a better world for people like his mother to live in, we had no right to ridicule her for the faith that she clung to in order to survive it.</p>
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